RE: [XaraXtreme-dev] Text on path indents

["Charles Moir" <CharlesM@xxxxxxxx>]

Alex said;
> I think there may be people who draw a short line for the 
> text to fit onto, then carry on typing.

Don't buy that. I bet you couldn't find any real-world example of this.

> Actually editing the 
> curve is non-trivial as it requires understanding select 
> inside, then adding a line segment with the bezier tool...

Er, no it doesn't, it requires you to press F4 (shape Editor) and drag
the line as required. That's all I ever do or all I've seen anyone else
do. No select inside should be necessary.

> What the button would do (which would be pressed in by 
> default for any new text, so it wraps), would be to simply 
> unwrap the text story so there is no right margin.

Yep I can see that case - but again that is simply not useful. I have
never ever had to change a wrapping text story into a non-wrapping one.
Pointless feature (which you can do with a copy paste if you really need
to)

> When you are introducing wrapping articificially (e.g. you 
> click on a blank doc with the text tool and write) you are 
> going to have to introduce an artificial margin. You wouldn't 
> have to pick the edge of the page. You could pick (for 
> instance) the current width of the text story.

There is no 'current width'. That's the problem. But I agree picking
some arbitrary width is probably good enough as it's easy to drag it.

> This would be 
> a reasonable useful way of turning a non-wrapping text 
> originally entered by "click and type" into a flowing text 
> story - how does one do that otherwise?

Esc, Ctrl+X, drag, Ctrl+V

Or if you pasted and forgot to create a column margin then simply,
Ctrl+Z, drag, Ctrl+V.

> From: Phil Martin
>
> Wouldn't a wrapping toggle button be useful for ordinary upright text?
> 
> How many times have you clicked and started typing some text 
> and only realised you need it to wrap after you've typed 
> serious amounts of text?

Well yes I can see this has some merit. Or more likely when you paste a
load of text and forget to create a column. So I agree there I some
value in having the ability to go from an un-wrapped state into a
wrapped column, but not the other way around. Not do I think there's any
value in being able to have text flowing off the end of the curve.

However if we do it via a button as you say, then we sort of get the
'un-wrap' option for free as it were, so in that case I'd not complain.

So the only justification for this feature from my point of view is
making it easier to convert single lines into wrapped columns (but I'm
still not sure what margin we choose by default).

BTW Photoshop has the exact same issue. It has two types of text,
'regular text' (unwrapped) and 'paragraph text' which is wrapped to a
column width that is dragged out - exactly as we do (except theirs is a
frame not a column, but hopefully Martin will be adding that before too
long).  I don't think they have the ability to switch from one to the
other.

> Alternatively, the logical conclusion of what you're saying, 
> Charles, is that we shouldn't have separate "boxed" and 
> "unboxed" text types at all!
> Very sensible but a lot of work.

Not at all, just that adding UI for a feature that isn't useful (flowing
off the end of curves and changing from wrapped to un-wrapped) is the
type of thing Xara does not do. It's the type of think Inkscape and
Adobe do do. It's a sort of cowards way out (sorry Inkscape guys) when
you can't decide how to do something, or you think you have an idea for
a slightly useful feature, so you just add a new button or menu. You
then end up with an Adobe or MS like product - huge clutter, thousands
of options, terrible leaning curve.

Every button, every menu, every icon, every option has to fight for its
existence, and if it can't put a damn good fight (read 'is really useful
and saves a lot of time') then it should not exist.  As always, simpler
is better.

But having said that, I might go along with it, especially if we did
find other *useful* functions for a 'regular / wrapped' toggle button.

Charles